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Max Online: 96 @ 09/22/07 02:39 PM
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#5929 - 02/09/08 12:56 AM Will THIS airplane takeoff?
elo Offline
KEN0N
Three Daggers


Registered: 06/02/07
Posts: 22
Seriously...that other airplane thread I started has been talked to death. Lets start a new one.

Suppose you have an airplane that has 1500LB of birds in the back. The airplane is 1500LB over gross weight and is not able to take off. If the birds begin to fly in the cabin area will the aircraft be able to take off?

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#5942 - 02/09/08 01:16 PM Re: Will THIS airplane takeoff? [Re: elo]
frumius Offline
Frumius 0oH
Swords with Shield


Registered: 03/31/07
Posts: 309
Loc: Beta Antares IV
Hey, I come here to relax, not exercise my brain!

Seriously, fun question... If the situation were fish sitting on the bottom of a jar of water (weight = jar+water+fish), I would expect the jar of water plus fish to still weigh the same if the fish all started swimming.

(Weight: Jar + water + fish[on bottom]) = (Weight: Jar + water + fish [swimming])

So does it follow that

(Weight: Airplane + air + birds[standing on floor]) = (Weight: Airplane + air + birds[flying around])
?


--
EDIT: Why does my message have that "Attachments...SlugMan..." crapola at the bottom? I didn't put it there, and it's not there now while I'm trying to edit the message.


Edited by frumius (02/09/08 01:26 PM)
Edit Reason: Because it is seriously FUBAR!
_________________________
Legend of Frumius

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#5947 - 02/09/08 07:00 PM Re: Will THIS airplane takeoff? [Re: frumius]
slugman Offline
SlugMano-ormao
Sword & Dagger


Registered: 03/31/07
Posts: 31
Loc: GA
what are you doing with my colormap!!
_________________________
I used to have 4,568 forum posts

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#5957 - 02/09/08 09:10 PM Re: Will THIS airplane takeoff? [Re: slugman]
frumius Offline
Frumius 0oH
Swords with Shield


Registered: 03/31/07
Posts: 309
Loc: Beta Antares IV
how'd your colormap get into my post!? I don't know wth is going on. Try quoting my post above, that colormap stuff isn't there.

SNAFU, man, totally FUBAR.
_________________________
Legend of Frumius

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#5962 - 02/10/08 11:36 AM Re: Will THIS airplane takeoff? [Re: frumius]
slugman Offline
SlugMano-ormao
Sword & Dagger


Registered: 03/31/07
Posts: 31
Loc: GA
i wonder if it's something that's been left from the old MythForums? i haven't attached anything since the new mnet launched... and the last time i made a colormap was..... too long ago.
_________________________
I used to have 4,568 forum posts

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#5979 - 02/11/08 01:41 PM Re: Will THIS airplane takeoff? [Re: elo]
kythras Offline
Kythras m3nt4l
Crossed Swords


Registered: 04/07/07
Posts: 52
 Originally Posted By: elo
Seriously...that other airplane thread I started has been talked to death. Lets start a new one.

Suppose you have an airplane that has 1500LB of birds in the back. The airplane is 1500LB over gross weight and is not able to take off. If the birds begin to fly in the cabin area will the aircraft be able to take off?

As soon as a bird lands, gets smashed unsoncsious on a wall by acceleration, or [blam] (defecate), the plane would be too heavy anyways! So NO


Edited by kythras (02/11/08 01:41 PM)

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#5997 - 02/11/08 06:44 PM Re: Will THIS airplane takeoff? [Re: elo]
Taymond Offline
"Tay"
Dagger


Registered: 12/07/07
Posts: 1
Loc: Champaign-Urbana, IL
Assuming the birds need to actually flap their wings to stay aloft, the force exerted downward by the bird's wings is matched by the force exerted upward to give the bird flight, and no downward force is alleviated by the birds' flight.

Plane's still 1500lb over weight.

Right?

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#6089 - 02/14/08 01:37 AM Re: Will THIS airplane takeoff? [Re: Taymond]
wismuth Offline
Wismuth
Sword & Dagger


Registered: 03/31/07
Posts: 29
It doesn't have anything to do with birds flapping their wings. The point is that the weight of a flying bird is transmitted to the plane through the air. It makes no difference whether the bird is flapping or gliding.

That's the intuition. The precise reason is conservation of mass and momentum in a closed system.

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#6503 - 03/07/08 02:43 AM Re: Will THIS airplane takeoff? [Re: wismuth]
krille Offline
Krille rma
Sword & Dagger


Registered: 03/31/07
Posts: 34
it's morning and I just woke up so correct me if I say something stupid haha
well a gliding bird is losing height, so while its gliding (falling) it will put slightly less weight onto the plane through the air, altho at the moment when the bird lands the plane will be more than 1500LB overweight,
A falling helicopter puts no force (or little) on the ground underneath it,, until it crashes and it puts lots of force on it, while a flying helicopter puts a constant force on it
Or did I miss something?
the system is closed,,, altho while a bird moves downward it has to push away the same volume of air in the other direction, but air is not as heavy as a bird so the centre of the mass of the plane will move down while the bird falls.
Either way the plane won't be able to fly,

more of these posts please haha,,, (altho I only check mariusnet once every halfyear or so...)

lets click submit and make a fool out of myself \:p

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#6515 - 03/07/08 09:19 PM Re: Will THIS airplane takeoff? [Re: krille]
zephirus Offline
Zeph magma
Crossed Swords


Registered: 03/31/07
Posts: 58
like Wismuth says!
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